Tersek & *Others*

A few days had gone by since their last brief meeting, giving the pack time to discuss amongst themselves if any wanted to try for a top leader position. On the third day Tersek shuffled out from his designated room within the temple, splayed paws moving slowly as he approached the platform at the front of the great room. Here he howled, raising his deep voice to echo through the chamber and carry out across the Ruins.

Saulk and Blackmist filed in side by side and took a seat in front of the platform.

Zanarah, Velvet, and Leomar made their way in next, with Starbane making a rare appearance as well.

Cedarwood and Dally settled in, with Dally perched in one of the high, narrow windows, while Cedarwood waddled across the ground. Quilikahm too appeared, but Nightshade remained absent, along with Lupanare.

Senka

She joined Terserk on the platform she had talked with her daughter who wanted to step up. Now that there was a spot.

Abigail had always watched her leaders studied and learned so now that Terserk was stepping down she had a chance but she wasn't sure others would agree. She sat near the platform.

Tracey joined cedarwood

Tersek & Others

"Today, we're holding a vote to see who will take my place when I step down as Co-Lead." Tersek announced to the group once they'd gathered, his gruff voice rumbling through the crisp, cool air of the morning. "We will also hold hearings and vote for anyone who wishes to change their current position for another. First, any who feel they are worthy and capable of taking my rank, step forward and announce yourself and your ambitions."

While the old wolfdog stepped back, Saulk rose beside Blackmist and moved up to the platform. As he positioned himself next to Tersek, the grizzled canine appeared almost larger than his grandsire, for though he was never destined to get as large as Tersek, the old co-lead had been losing weight during the last few months, and his once impressively bulky frame had dwindled in mass. His coat, too, was not as thick and well groomed as it had once been, leaving Saulk's to shine all the more brightly in comparison.

"Greetings my fellow Haunters." The younger canine began, holding himself proudly without allowing his head to raise beyond its proper rank, "If you choose me to be the next co-lead, I promise to rebuild our name and honor, and assist Senka in strengthening our great pack. I will set up a team dedicated to investigating those of us that have gone missing or have been killed, and focus on growth and shoring what alliances we have, and building new ones." Thoughts of his mom and brother crossed Saulk's mind at this time, along with Sera and Erathi, and the many defectors of the pack. "As for our enemies and future fights, I will be seeking to fill positions that have been empty for far too long; Tacticians, diplomats, a new Captain, and more - I feel one reason we've weakend is because we don't utilize everyone's best strengths to their fullest, and I aim to fix that."

Saulk took a deep breath and gazed across the diminished crowed, his mind filling the voids with the imagined faces of those whom Tersek had told him of in their many late-night discussions. Wolves, cats, reptiles, herbivores, and even a human at one point. This building had once been filled to the brim with Haunters, and the sparse crowd that sat before him now only filled Saulk with greater determination to fill up its chambers once more. Eyes gleaming, Saulk raised his voice and tilted his muzzle up, "Vote for me, and I will lead the Haunters back to glory. Thank you." He then stepped back, bowing his head to Senka and Tersek before hopping off the platform and taking his seat next to Blackmist once more.

Cedarwood & Others

Cedarwood was listening, but his focus was split by something else. While Saulk was delving into his speech, the brown-tinted eagle hopped closer to Tracey. He glanced between her and the wolfdog, then to Senka and Tersek. Making sure none of the leaders were looking in his direction, the eagle lowered his voice to a whisper, "

Tracey, would you want to start a family?" This probably wasn't the best time or place to ask such a question, but he'd delayed it for so long now, he couldn't wait any longer. "I uh, have a lot of gifts I've meant to give you... I just, well-" His sharp eyes drifted towards one of the windows, beyond which was his usual perching spot, where a pile of various items was now gathered. All gifts he'd found but then deemed unworthy to give Tracey.

A sharp-eared Zanarah flicked an aud back and looked up at the eagles. She thumped her long tail against the ground once and eyed the big raptor, silently warning him to keep quiet during the meeting.

Senka

Senka just listened. She had no clue her son planned to step up.

Tyrant listened before getting up himself. HE had given it alot of thought and well he wished to help his mother. He rubs against Velvet a he moved up to the platform. I have given this a lot of thought over the past day and I Tyrant son of Senka wish to help my mother in bringing the haunters back to full strength. I want to help create a pack that is open to listening to their packmates no matter what they are or their age or deformities they may have. I see no one as lesser then myself and I believe we should treat each other with equality. I want us to work again as a team as a family side by side. I want to bring back the ranks and positions that we lost and want to put those who wish to be in that position. I want everyone to get a chance to learn different things whether that be hunting, guarding, mothering, Scouting, Diplomacy even if you don't think you have what it takes but want to try it I am sure there are those here that can teach you and help you. I want this pack this family to prosper and grow again. I want the valley to not see us for our past but for our future. I want to forget the past, look to the future. I want the valley to understand everyone makes mistakes. Big and small. But I want to show them we are still here and we are still strong. I don't wish to instill fear into anyone but I also don't want anyone thinking we are push overs so I would strive to find a good medium between the two. Vote for me and I will listen to everyone and take everyones ideas into consideration He said

Tracey was preening at his words listening to him and the others down below. WE'll talk later

Tersek & Others

Velvet had been surprised by Tyrant's decision to step forward, and it was expressed for a second or two in her almond-hued eyes. Surprised as she was, the elder lioness didn't miss flicking her tail against the liger as he brushed past her, a sort of encouraging pat before he gave his speech.

She and the others then listened with rapt attention to the second speaker, with eyes and ears tuned to Tyrant's vision and promise for the future of the Haunters. Quiet murmurs arose as Zanarah shared her opinions with Blackmist, and Starbane sought Leomar's ideas on the candidates. Whatever Quili's thoughts were remained her own, as the diminutive black deer tended to keep to herself, and was particularly isolated after Nightshade's disappearance. Dally's view was hard to discern, with the raptor's face holding little emotion between listening to Saulk and Tyrant. Dima and Bluescale, the only two reptiles left in the group, were equally impossible to read as they lurked at the edges of the Temple, waiting for the order to make their vote.

Tersek took to the platform after Tyrant was finished and looked at the few members left to the Haunters. "Unless anyone else wants to take the stage, we'll begin the vote. If you vote for Saulk, stand to the left-" The wolfdog nodded to one side of the platform, "-those for Tyrant, to the right."

Senka

She hadn't known tyrant was going to step up.

Tracy moved to the right

Tersek & Others

Saulk watched as Haunters began to shift about, moving either to the right or the left. Tracey shuffled to the right, and a distracted Cedarwood hopped right after her, seeming more interested in pleasing his unofficial mate rather than paying attention to who or what he was voting for.

Dally glided from his perch and land lightly to the left. Following him was a decisive Leomar, who'd always been unhappy with the sedentary nature of the new Haunters, missing the tales of war and glory for which his very position was created. Starbane trailed after his fellow Coaltion member more out of solidarity than anything. They were joined in timely fashion by Zanarah who also languished under the addition of so many new rules that stifled their old freedoms. In the shadow of the three big cats, little Quililkahm trotted after, placing herself under Saulk's vote.

Blackmist moved to the right, marking her vote for Tyrant. Forever the gentle diplomat of the pack, peace sounded better to the aging wolf than anything else in her twilight years.

The last vote fell to Velvet then, the feline who, with the solid support of Bandit, brought ruin to the Haunters and scattered them like broken insects after she felt their leadership had grown weak and stagnant. The sly old lionness purred quietly to herself as she watched the various Haunters dip to the left or the right, mirroring a vote from ages past.

'Another for Saulk, that's seven... Mist to Tyrant, that's seven for him. Quil for Saulk, eight... Lets make this interesting.' She counted in her head as they made their decisions one by one, and at the end of it she stood and sauntered casually to the right, finalizing the vote in a tie.

Senka

Senka watched and counted. A tie it seemed. well it seems we've tied. However, if all can be in agreement eventually I will be stepping down, so my proposal is that all three of us co lead the haunters. Eventually I'll step down but we won't have to worry about replacing me since there will already be two othersShe said calmly.

Tyrant was a bit nervous. He watched an waited.

Saulk & Others

Tersek was about to speak, but stopped himself and looked to his grandson. He gave the younger canine a nod, and it was Saulk to puffed his chest and stepped forward, moving to place himself next to Tyrant and bolstered Senka's message, "If there are any in disagreement, speak now."

Blackmist looked from Zanarah to Dally, glancing over the faces present. Silence reigned for several long moments, and no one stepped forward or raised a voice to contest the new proposal. She breathed a quiet sigh of relief, always happy when conflicts could be avoided.

When no one rejected the proposal, Saulk spoke again, readily taking to his new mantle, "With that settled, I'd like to get straight to work strengthening the Haunters and making good on my promises. First and foremost, I'd like to formally propose an alliance with Aiden's pack." Tersek scowled at this, but didn't speak his discontent. Saulk continued, "I know in years past, we've had a zero tolerance policy on defectors. But with so few members we can't afford to make enemies out of everyone; I've heard the stories of Haunter Divisions, and I'd like to bring that back. I'd like to send a diplomat to Aiden's pack, and work on an agreement between his family and ours."

Blackmist perked up at this, "I would like to help with this-" Her dark butter eyes danced from her cousin to Tyrant and Senka, knowing she needed their consent too, "-if everyone agrees."

Senka

Senka listened. Its not like Aizen left to turn against us he left because of the treatment of his sibling and his own daughterShe said pointedly looking at Terserk. Blackmist you shall go to himShe said.

Tyrant listened. Agreed

Saulk & Others

Saulk picked up on the tension straight away, looking between Senka and his grandfather. He was too young to have experienced the old Haunters, but grew up with the stories, surrounded by the ragtag bunch of Haunters that seemed to be at odds with each other over how to govern themselves. This was one reason the young wolfdog wanted to take up a leadership mantle, to help bridge the gap between both parties, and to that end, he spoke out carefully after giving Blackmist an affirming nod. "While we're all gathered, I would like to address the issue of laws in the Shadow Haunters."

His bi-colored gaze swept the whole of the Haunters, waiting for their attention before going on, "I know that some prefer peace, and others prefer our founding beliefs. I myself prefer a pack that boasts strength and resilience, and I lean towards the older beliefs. I worry that if we continue to water down who we were, we become weaker. Tersek, Blackmist, and myself are the only three canines left in our pack, and our youngest cat is Starbane. I do believe my father can be harsh, and perhaps was too sharp in tongue when dealing with Aizen and the others, but his reasons are just; Mijuu's bloodline was tainted, and many of her descendants are malformed." He'd never met the rottweiler he spoke of, but the names of so many Haunters were ingrained in his memory from the stories passed on by elder members. "I agree with Senka that we should never treat the malformed harshly or as anything less than us, but it does stand to reason that they should not breed and spread potential weakness in the pack."

Saulk took a deep breath, bracing for whatever reactions might come his way, "However, unlike my father, I do believe that Haunters can and should have mates. Bond with who you want, such relations will surely only make us stronger. But breed selectively, with those that are the strongest or swiftess, or have better traits. That is one thing that made us so strong in the past, and helped to bolster our numbers."

After getting the go-ahead from Senka and Saulk, Blackmist started to head from the temple.

Senka

She let him finishedd .Mijuu bloodline were not tainted how dare you insult Mijuu.She said . Anyone in this pack is allowed to breed regardless of their deformities. She said. She shakes her head. If you try to prevent anyone from having pups Saulk you will only cause more to defect. Also if you do try that then you yourself are not allowed to reproduce either. She said. She glared now.

Tyrant growled at Saulk.No the old ideals were wrong in almost their entirety. Anyone is allowed to have their own mates and they should be allowe to breed to their mates not someone else. He said his tail was flicking in agitation at Saulks words. WE are here to move on and stop giving others reason to leave us. Aizen was a strong wolf one we shouldn't of lost. But our treatment of Momo and her children were wrong. STopping anyone from starting a family is wrong if they choose to do so. They knew the risks of having babies and they chose to have the babies. If you can't accept that then you yourself don't deserve to breed

Saulk & Others

"It wasn't meant as an insult, only a statement of fact." Saulk amended, with a brief bow of his head to convey the sincerity of his words. "You can't deny that at least four of her descendants have deformities that make it more difficult for them to survive, especially Ursa. I'm not saying that makes them any less than us, just that we shouldn't promote that."

When Tyrant growled, Saulk turned to face the liger. Where Tersek would have been bristled and snarled, Saulk only raised his head and allowed his grizzled ruff to expand. His words carried powerfully, but with no growl to tarnish them, "I disagree with you. Look at our members-" He nodded to the few faces that were left, "-are they happy? Have you asked them if they agree with your views? Or are you just forcing your new desires on them?" He looked to the crowd, then back to Tyrant and Senka, "I don't want this to be a fight, I'm merely trying to seek a middle ground between what you want and what's best for the pack."

"I agree with Saulk." Leomar muttered as he sat up, "We use to have a Coalition, and a need for one. Now it's.. just Starbane and I." The disparaging look he gave to Starbane caused the other cat to frown back at him, "No offense, but Star's better at canoodling with Likara than actual training or fighting."

Starbane huffed and rolled his eyes, not taking any serious harm from Leo's words. "Well, whatever. And we're not canoodling, we're just spending time together. But I mean, if we're on the topic... it'd be cool if we were mates, right? Not saying we are, just... asking."

There was a moment of awkward silence before Saulk spoke again, "..well, yes, I suppose that's one thing that we can all agree on?" He looked again to Tyrant and Senka, then back to the crowd. "Mates, yes - but I still think we need to have some rules. We are who we are because we are strong. Or were strong. Half of Aizen's pack is deformed, and that's a liability. You just don't see that in other packs, and for good reason." Saulk shook his head, "I strongly believe we go should go back to the old way of producing offspring, with the caveat that anyone can have a mate. Or-" as another thought hit him, Saulk rolled with it, "Those that are in disagreement and want a more peaceful, easier way of life - why don't they move to the Temple of the Ancient Guardians? Form a peaceful, neutral pack?"

Senka

Senka tail flicked It could of happene to any of us Sault and thats final her lines were tainted if anything it was a combination of Terserk and her lines. She said She listened How about you go to to temple of the ancient guardians. This is my home and I will remain a haunter but I will not let you or anyone us dictate who can and can't have babies. Deformities don't make some weak. Ursa is the only acception to that as is. Momo does great and so doesnt Aizen. She said The coalition will be he exception to the breeding rule since they are our fighters that is the only acception here.. Anyone in the cooalition can have a mate but they will breed to those who will produce strong fighters. But I will not prohibit anyone deformities or not from having babies its not right and it shouldn't be how the haunters are. She said. If you want to make rules and be cruel like that Saulk you may go make a new pride and take who ever you want. but I will not have us ruin the haunters any more. The haunters old were ones who stole pups and cubs from others and made those cubs and pups believe it was because we were saving them. This started a war in the valley. You want aizen to help us to ally with us if he hears were are still Barbaric then he will not.She said. The Haunters can be strong either way if you only have faith in it. Aizen has proven that no all with Deformities are weak, Momo too has prooven this. URsa just happened to get a bad mouth and honestly that might not even be geens something could of happened during birthShe said. Her tail flicked. Im not looking for purely peaceful but one that is not a dictator and trying to rule this valleyShe said.

Tyrant tail flicked. I am trying to keep this pack intact. To tell those that want pups or cubs they can't have them just because of their deformity makes them lesser then us when they are not. My mother is right, When it comes to the coalition that should stay true to the breeding rules but everyone else should be able to make up their own mindsHE said.

Tracey preeneedd .I agree with Senka and Tyrant. no one should be told they can't have babies. Do you not see what that has done to momo. She was fierce wolf herslef despite her issues. but you all tried to deny her the one thing she craved her own pups. That made her resent us, hate us even. Is that what we are suppose to do? Make our own pack hate us because they have one thing wrong with them?She said.

Saulk & Others

"It could have been a fluke of that litter with Mijuu." Saulk agreed, "From what I understand, she was healthy and strong, or my grandfather wouldn't have bred to her." He looked across to Tersek for confirmation, and received a brisk nod.. along with a heavy scowl that told Saulk he wasn't entirely pleased with the compromises his grandson was trying to accomplish. But the old wolf was tired, and his slumped shoulders and less than perky auds accentuated that. Displeased though he may be with some of his grandson's suggestions, Tersek didn't speak up to interrupt him.

Saulk returned his attention to Tyrant and Senka, after glancing briefly at Tracey as well for her input, "But it stands to reason that Aizen and Momo should have been encouraged to aid the pack in other ways than producing new members. They both had children with deformities, and that brings weakness to our pack and confirms their deformities are genetic." He sighed and furrowed his brows thoughtfully, trying to convey his point without sounding too harsh. It certainly wasn't an easy task, and he was thankful that Aizen and his kin at least weren't here to listen to it. "It's not fair, I know. But a pack has to make rules to preserve the strength of the family as a whole, and not compromise over the feelings of a select few. Haunters must be tough physically and emotionally, and I'm worried that you too are being too weak in the second regard. I don't want to fight with you or anyone else in our family, I just want to work together to resolve these problems in a way we can all agree on."

A few murmurs went through the crowd, and Starbane's rugged voice again rose up, "If the Coalition is being forced to breed with only the strongest, the others should be held to the same rules too. Right?" His confidently posed question faltered a little, and he lowered his head and looked to Zanarah, dropping his voice to a coarse whisper, "You'd consider Likara a strong cat, wouldn't you? I'm not saying that I- it's just a rhetorical question, I mean."

Zanarh pitched a pale brow upwards at Star's question, regarding him with clear skepticism, "No one is going to bad an eye if you breed to Likara, but this is not about you right now. We're discussing pack politics you fluff-for-brains. Pay attention." The regal ligeress then raised her vocals, "Perhaps a different sort of compromise?" She looked to her three leaders, waiting for their attention before continuing, "What if those deemed weak or deformed are put through a series of endurance tests to ensure that they are truly fit for breeding? Or, they could be permitted one litter to see if they can produce healthy offspring despite their weakness?" The big cat honestly had little concern over breeding regulations, her chief gripe was with the relative pacificity of the Haunters, not who she could or couldn't breed with.

Senka

She tried to stay calm. **I will never stop anyone from having pups or cubs if it's what they choose to do. No need for tests. There is space for everyone in this pack whether it will be future of fighting or caring for the young sick and elderly so there is no reason to stop anyone. ** She said calmly. **As for requirements, they should atleast be able to have one litter with Thier mate but other litters may need to have a different parent depending on what we need** she said

Tyrant** Aizen and momo pups are as strong as any of you. And no they shouldn't of been encouraged to do something else** He said

Mijuu had been invited back by senka she was heavily pregnant. She was listening to everything but didn't come forward

Saulk & Others

"But they aren't." Saulk contested, now matching his gaze to Senka, "Aizen is strong, but he will never reach the full potential of a wolf with four legs. The same goes for his daughter Cynical, who has the added misfortune of having no tail to communicate with. The defect became worse with her. I'd never treat them any less, nor show any disrespect, but we cannot let hurt feelings compromise our strength-" When an unknown rottweiler joined the group in the midst of their discussion, Saulk paused and his fur bristled in warning. He turned to Mijuu and flagged his tail high in the air, "Who are you?"

Zanarah and Leomar were quick to rise as well, with the former uttering a low growl at the pregnant dog, and the latter stalking towards the elderly canine with fire in his hungry eyes. Even Starbane, still a little cowed by Zana's words, scrambled to his feet and turned to look at the stranger with caution.

A snarl came from Tersek as well, for his mind was dulling as much as his yellowed fangs, and his sight had been in decline for some time. The wolfdog began to push through the crowd, his steps stiff and unsteady, but determined all the same. "Just who.. Mijuu?" It wasn't until he was closer that Tersek finally recognized the rottie he hadn't seen in years, and the snarling faded from his throat. "Stand down, Haunters." The fur began to relax along his back now, "It's been some time, Mijuu."

A disappointed Leomar slumped back on his haunches, his wish for a fight denied.

Senka

She snorted at saulk. ** If Aizen were still here he'd be at you in a fight any day** she said**and you can't say anything bad about cynical she has time to learn how to compensate for her losses. You underestimate them that will be the downfall. Her ears twitch. She had found mijuu a few days ago beat by humans and forcebred by Thier mangy muts. **You should still be resting Mijuu** she said in concern for the older dog.

Mijuu hadn't shown herself till now due to recovering from her trauma she didn't let the haunters growling phase her. Her body showed the trauma she'd been through scars and not being in good weight. **Terserk** even her voice was a bit raspy. She sat down by senka unable to move much more.

Saulk & Others

"If he were younger and had four legs, he might be a challenge to me." Saulk said evenly, easing back into the conversation after Tersek identified the stranger and Senka explained her condition. He certainly had his grandfather's bravado, but with enough temperance to keep it in check. "Senka I think you're taking this too personally on their behalf. I don't bring up their disabilities to portray them in a bad light, I'm only pointing out the obvious. What if the deer herds adopted such a policy? They'd become weak, and they'd perish - there's a reason you don't see packs of deformed wolves or deer, because they simply don't survive. Aizen and his kin are only alive because they live in a pack as strong as ours. Do you think Ursa would have lived more than a month on her own, without us to keep her fed and sheltered?" Rather than give into frustration or anger, Saulk sought to bridge the gap through example, "I say again, we need to have some rules in place, instead of letting our members do whatever they please because we don't want to hurt their feelings."

It was at this point that Velvet spoke up, her almond eyes drifting from Mijuu to the three leaders at the alter, "I would agree with our Leader Saulk." The lioness began, bringing up the canine's title, "I've seen the Haunters divided before, and it was because the current leader had become inept. If this division continues, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Haunters fracture again. I'd advise you three work on compromises." Her long, silky tail flicked idly near her paws as she spoke.

The discussion faded from Tersek's attention as he stood before Mijuu, noting her poor condition and plump midsection, "You should head to the Basement, and let Quilikahm treat you."

Senka

She snorted ** there is where you'd loose saulk thinking three legs makes him weaker then you. It does not he is as strong as you or stronger** she said ** Ursa malformation is the exemption to this for obvious reasons** she said. ** The only compromise possible is that the one you breed to will or rather should produce offspring that has a good quality to them whether it be strength speed or what ever. But anyone is allowed to have pups cubs if it's what they want** she said

Tyrant frowned at velvet. His tail flicked. ** We are weak because we fight among ourselves because we are too controlling of our packmates. We criticize others because they are deformed because of some flaw that happened. We as good as chased Aizen and his siblings from here because we don't want them to reproduce because of a flaw that not Thier fault. ** He said**saulk is wrong in thinking a three legged wolf couldn't take him. I've seen Aizen fight we should be ashamed of having lost him. He would of made a great leader for us. Determination, love, fierce he had it all. But because some of us are stuck at only seeing his flaw then his strength** he said disappointed that velvet took saulks side.

Mijuu was sad to of learned Aizen and momo were gone. She slowly got up at Terserks words and slowly went down to the basement

Saulk & Others

"Aizen has all the qualities Tyrant described, there's no doubt that I respect him for that. But to say he's stronger than me when he's missing an entire limb and on his fifteenth season? Listen-" His ears briefly flattened and he forced his eyes closed for a moment, rallying his thoughts. "We need to be able to discuss pack politics without fighting with one another. We have many members that are unhappy, and we're catering more to feelings than the health of our pack." He paused again, frustrated at the stalemate. Part of him wanted to burst into violence and forcefully bring about change, but he tucked those impulses back. Violence had torn the pack apart before, and he didn't want history to repeat itself.

An ear flicked in Velvet's direction, and after another moment of brooding thought, Saulk cleared his throat and went on, "Velvet has a point, we both need to concede to one another for the benefit of the pack. Allowing members to breed is an important issue for you - I'll drop my argument against that, and make no more protest against it. New blood in the pack is needed. In return, I propose we extend further freedom to our members - allow them to capture enemies, including young."

"I vote for Senka on the breeding issue." Starbane piped up, drawing a surprised look from Saulk, more for the sudden outburst than for Star's opinion.

"Freedom is an issue." Velvet agreed slowly, eying the determined Saulk, and Tyrant with his disapproving frown. All the while, her tail continued its idle movements, conceding nothing in the way of her internal emotions. "If we're going to relax restrictions on members, lets do it across the board and focus more on supporting each other as Family again. Aizen left because he was unhappy with rules, just the same as Oracle did. We're bleeding members faster than we are producing them."

Senka

Senka listened no we will not steal young. I will not stand for that. That was risens ways and caused war in the valley. I want willing members in our pack. If we steal young from Thier mother's it will only cause us to die again. We will not steal pups from Thier mother's nor hold captives she said she was in shock that saulk would go back to that. But she would not allow pups and cubs to be ripped from Thier mother's.

Tyrant tail was flicking how can you suggest that Saulk? I had been stolen from my mother by others from here myself. I will not let you be cruel the haunters are not that way no more. stealing cubs was a sensitive issue for him and it brought back the time he was stolen from senka. His tail was moving fast as memories began flashing. We steal cubs we will make others want us anahlaited again. Well end up with another war that no one wants

Saulk & Others

A wrinkle began to form across his muzzle, where it lingered until he forced it back. His eyes locked hard on Senka, "Is that how it is now? I offer suggestions, and you alone get to decide what goes and what doesn't? I offered you my concession, now you will heed mine - members will be allowed to take young if they deem them better off in our pack. We've tried your way long enough, and we've only lost members as a result."

He turned on Tyrant now, realizing that a civil debate was no longer an option, "I not only consider it, it's now allowed. I'm tired of us wasting away in here, walking on eggshells because we're afraid of hurting feelings and causing trouble with other packs. We're Shadow Haunters, dammit!" His voice finally broke with a growl, "I'm going to make good on my promises to the pack." He swept the gathered Haunters with a hardened gaze, "I will form a committee to investigate the disappearances and suspicious deaths in our pack, and we will take action against those responsible!" The growl rose as he gave up all attempts at building a bridge between their divides, "My mother was slain, and my brother likely met the same fate. And what of your sister, Starbane? Or your daughter, Dally? What of my sister Duality? Sera, Nahimana, and Momo? None of them have justice for what happened to them because we're too busy bickering and too afraid to stir anger in our neighbors. NO more!"

Leomar stirred. The boredom that had encompassed his lazy gaze was suddenly gone and replaced with a look of interest. Zanarah listened keenly, and kept a curious gaze on all three leaders. Still laying on her side, Velvet's tail never stopped its slow curl and release, neither slowing or gaining momentum as the fiery words erupted from Saulk.

Tersek felt a small swell of pride in his grandson, having initially been worried that Saulk would roll over and accept Senka's authority. He's focus left Mijuu as the rottie retreated to the Basement with a dutiful Quilikahm, and centered back on the alter where the wolf and two cats stood.

Senka

She moved to stand taller ** enough Saulk. The only young allowed to be taken by force from Thier mother are those in human care. ** She said standing full height. **If you want to do this you leave the haunters. ** She said** I will not let the haunters fall again into the hated category. The only young that can be taken from Thier mother are those under the two legged care. That's as much of a concession I will make. Abandon young those orphaned are allowed to be adopted in. But any with mother's still with them are not allowed to be taken**

Tyrant ears go back and now he made to roar to shut them all up. **Enough.** He snarled. ** This pride can be strong again but not if we revert back to Risens ways. She is the reason our pride got decimated. Which means no stealing cubs from Thier mother's. Breeding should be the main focus on making our pride strong again. All females should be required to carry offspring to get us more willing members. That is the way we strengthen our numbers. Not revert back to cruelty. Do you want to be like the makucha?** He growled. ** If I catch a cub here that's mother is still around and wants there cub I will personally return it**

Saulk & Others

Saulk couldn't compete with Senka's size, but he raised his dial and again locked eyes with the feline regardless, refusing to back down. "You will not push me around and make all the rules yourself. You got away with it with my father because he was too old to resist you. I tried to have a civil discussion but you refused that and declared your law final without consulting anyone but your own feelings." The growl remained, becoming part of his words as he stood toe to toe with the mother and her son, "If your way worked I would be more than happy to follow it, but you can't honestly look at the faces gathered and honestly say it works. The Haunters were the strongest pack in the Valley while Risen rule, and only declined after her disappearance - you can't deny that."

Tyrant was sized up next, undaunted by his roar, "You wouldn't listen to my suggestion on breeding, I will not accept your laws on stealing. Do not make the mistake of turning against your own pack to defend outsiders - your loyalty lies with the Family, not anyone else. Are you not a Shadow Haunter, Tyrant?"

"Do I get a say?" Leomar questioned, a spot of eagerness in his voice, "Whether you agree with the Makucha or not, they've grown stronger with their methods. We haven't. Saulk's got a point there." Of course, he was only siding with the wolf because he craved action, and avoiding conflict with their neighbors wasn't his cup of tea.

Zanarah was hesitant to speak, not wanting to drive any wedge into an already fractured situation. For the second time, the ligeress tried to be a voice of reason, "What if we we are selective in what cubs are stolen? I would argue the cubs of enemies should be up for grabs, and like Senka said, those belonging to humans. But also any that would otherwise be raised in a weak or inferior pack, where the cubs would otherwise be better off under our care?"

Starbane had little interest in stealing cubs or brawling with enemies. Despite his own experiences with the Makucha, the pale liger remained silent on this one.

Dally's voice rose towards the end, "We do need to deal with our missing and slain members. Fighting between ourselves does nothing to help them."

Senka

Senka began to pace now. ** The entire valley hates us because of Risen** she said. ** We can steal cubs from humans that is good enough. As of right now we don't have enemies. The makucha are neutral with us for now and the other packs around haven't bothered us. So going on that there no one to steal from. I never said any of what I want is final only that I will not support certain things. I'm not risen and I never want to be seen as Risen. We fell apart after she was gone because half of us had been pups that had been stolen and realized that they weren't with us willingly** she said. **As tyrants said the way to increase our willing force is to breed. So if you want to increase our size that is what should happen, I will not force anyone to be a part of this pack Saulk we are not a dictator's. Our pack should be made up of Willing members who care about each other** she said. ** We start also patrolling our territory and kicking unknowns out or inviting them to join us**

Tyrant glared now and moved closer to Saulk. **If you ever question my loyalty again** he growled** don't forget whose the one that brought velvet and them back** he growled. ** The pups under human care and orphaned pups are the only ones who should be forcefully taken. Being a cub that had been stolen before I wanted the ones who kidnapped me dead eventually and that is what will happen you want a pack that's a family do you not?** He said** breeding is the solution not cruelty**

Saulk & Others

Saulk didn't flinch, "You want no rules regarding breeding, and I want no rules regarding obtaining young." Zanarah's attempt at compromise was roundly ignored by the three Leaders, other than a brief flick of Saulk's aud in her direction to acknowledge that she'd spoken. While Senka paced, the wolfdog had his large paws planted firmly on the stone of the alter, "That's not why we fell apart, and you know it. Stealing young was never a factor in our demise, it was a lack of leadership and conviction. Members defect, and we let it happen without punishment. The Makucha steal and kill our own, and we make a peace treaty with them. Those are the reasons we have suffered, and why the rest of the Valley mocks us. Well Senka, I would rather be feared than mocked."

A shadow fell over Saulk as Tyrant encroached on his space. Instead of cowering back in the face of the large predator, Saulk bristled and let his growl deepen, "You said you would interfere with any Haunter trying to bring a cub back to the pack. That is placing your loyalty with an outsider over your own Family!" The wolfdog shook his head, knowing he was letting his anger get the better of him and taint his speech. He'd held it back for some time, but now the words flowed without control, "Too long have we talked about change and strengthening our pack, and nothing as happened! That ends today. Half of you are far past your prime, and there are no mates available within the pack for most of us. Taking young from others will boost our numbers and detract from our enemies, and I will defend anyone in the Family that does so."

Leomar now stood, his mouth hanging slightly agape and his tail animated.

Zanarah planed her ears a little, but said no more. She settled back down on her stomach, folding her paws in front of her.

Velvet was also silent at this point, having said what she needed. Now she watched to see how everything would unfold.

Senka

She growled** my las concessions you can steal from makucha humans that's it. You will not steal from other packs that have done nothing wrong except oppose our ways. Stealing from those who stole from us is acceptable that's it Saulk. Feared and hated are two separate things. Feared I'll have, hated no** she said. ** All females will breed unless really old. I'll breed, and males in this pack will go and try to sway some females to join us.**

Tyrant snorted at him. **And unless they cubs came from makucha or human or Thier mother's died I will return all others to safe us from hatred and I'll cove up for the family member who did it by lying to the mother on the reason**

Saulk & Others

The grizzled wolf scarcely blinked as he soaked in the words of his co-leads and bristled at what he heard. "You win on your desires to lift breeding restrictions, I won't stand in the way of that or criticize your decisions there. What I don't accept are your terms on what young we can and can't steal - we are giving them a better life by taking them into the pack as it is. We are so few in number we must do all we can to regain our strength before the Makucha outpace us."

Tyrant earned a look of ire from Saulk and he squared up on the big cat again, "If you choose to protect an outsider over a fellow Haunter, I will be at their side to defend them, and I will encourage the rest of the pack to do the same. I will never choose an outsider over one of our own Family, and that's why I question your loyalty to us." Despite his own conviction to keep things civil and build bridges, the hybrid had tossed those things to the wind and allowed the flames of his ancestors' blood to fuel his behavior now. He'd likely regret it later, but in the moment Saulk couldn't help it.

Senka

Senka growled now ** then leave the haunters Saulk. I will not allow it. From the makucha and humans yes but from others no** she said

Tyrant growled ** I question your sanity. You want to do what risen did and that is wrong. I will defend haunters with my life, what I won't defend is stealing a females cubs from her. It is wrong and not what will strengthen us. ** He said** breeding will strengthen us. Convince others to join us will strengthen us. Talking to the young that are old enough to make Thier own decisions and convince them to join us will strengthen us. But not forcing pups from their dams I know the pain of finding out I was stolen from my mother. I wanted all of that pack dead. And that's what will happen with kidnapped cubs. We have two enemies makucha and humans they are the only ones that don't deserve young**

Tracey

The eagle had enough she flew down and landed between them. here a better idea because I do agree stealing cubs is wrong in most cases. Have a division that goes out and attacks random packs that aren't our allies make them see they need protection. That division would have to stay separated from us. Then when the attack is done we swoop in and offer a pack to join or a pack for Thier mother's to join while raising pups. ** She said calmly

Saulk & Others

"I am a Haunter, I will not be chased from my home." Saulk defiantly shot back, his tail now stiff and raised high above his back. It may not be a good idea to so fiercely defy the big cat, but he'd already crossed the line into aggression and he couldn't back down now. "You should be one to-"

A flutter of gray wings and the bulk of a very large raptor was what forced Saulk to take several steps back and stall in his words. He was about to rebuke Tracey, but stopped when he heard her suggestion. A heavily furrowed brow inclined and he glanced uncertainly between Senka and Tyrant, "Sow discord, and take advantage of the chaos that produces?" His snarls quieted some, "I can get behind that idea, as long as there are no qualms about killing. The only obvious exception would be our allies." This was said to his fellow co-leads as he leaned towards accepting this new compromise.

"I'd be game for that." Leomar's eagerness had not dwindled, and it would be little surprise when he pitched his voice in support of the new division.

"As the pack's Oracle, I would be more than happy to assist in this." Velvet spoke again as well, having previously proven her worth as a strategist and organizer.

Tracey

She wasn't scared of them. **The idea isn't to slaughter entire packs but to give them reason to join us. Kill a few but leave some alive** she said** then we come in claiming to be tracking this group. We offer them protection and a safe place for Thier young and mother's** she watches each of them. **If it doesn't convince them the first time the division goes in a second time and takes out even more. Eventually only leaving females with young. By then they'll have a real reason to accept** she said. ** Make this division cats that aren't well known, and we can blame the Makucha**

Senka listened** I can get behind that** she finally said

Tyrant sighed **that can be doable**

Saulk & Others

"Kill two birds with one stone." Saulk murmured, slowly nodding as he did so. Anger still roiled within him, but it began to simmer back when the trio had something mutual to agree on, and more importantly in Saulk's eyes, something that would strength the pack and not put restraints on its members. "I'd like to be in charge of this new division." The growl in his throat had dropped to a rumble now. "And where would this new division reside?"

"The Temple of the Haunted." Velvet offered, finally rising to her paws as she ingrained herself in the conversation. The lioness moved forward, brushing past Leomar and Zanarah to approach the alter. "It's sheltered and high enough in the mountains, away from the boundaries of other packs. And it's close to us." Her silky voice came in pleasant contrast to all the snarling and growling that had just recently overtaken the room, "I have extensive knowledge of the area and can help establish our base there."

"I want in on this. Oracle defected to the Makucha, it wouldn't be a stretch for others to think I did too." Leomar pointed out, tip-toeing the line between asking and demanding to be part of the new division.

Zanarah added her support, "I will join as well. Apart from the Parnassian Meadows and perhaps the Lurkers, I doubt any other pack knows who I am."

Starbane flicked his tail and looked around, fervently wishing to see Likara. He wasn't sure which side the leopardess would pick, and that's what his decision would hinge on. "Ehh, it's a cool idea and all. But I'm undecided right now... I'll just stay here for the time being?"

Senka

Senka **the only problem Saulk is your a canine the makucha do not work with canines. So you couldn't be seen by the packs that are attacked.** She said.

Tyrant listened calmly **perhaps then I should lead it. Not many actually know me **

Saulk & Others

"I'd like to have oversight on it." Said Saulk as he began to regard the liger with lessening tension. "Not taking part in the raids, but managing them and moving in to sway the targeted packs after the attacks." Two-toned eyes switched between Tyrant to Velvet, a little surprised by her sudden interest in this venture. Then again, considering the history he knew of her, perhaps it wasn't so surprising.

"I'm sure you'll both be useful in this division." Velvet stood before the platform, her tail now still and idle behind her. "It appears we have four felines including myself that are interested - are there any others?" She looked back over her shoulder to see who else might volunteer in this new branch.

Tyrant

Senka **we all are overseeing it. The main force haunters will be the ones swaying them. I suggest blackmist to be the main swayer. I myself will go and help swaying.** She said calmly

Tyrant listened** I'll be part of the attacking team** he said

Saulk & Others

"Four cats isn't bad to start out with." Velvet pointed out. "I know of a few cats the mountains I can speak with, and see if they would be willing to join us or at least participate in breeding ventures."

The red continued to subside from Saulk's sight. This may not be exactly what the wolfdog wanted, but it was a compromise he was willing to accept if this new Division could be pulled off. "I'll accompany the group to their new residence, and then I want our Scouts to do a full sweep of the Valley and report back on what other packs and herds are out there. From there we can discuss our first targets."

Dally ruffled his feathers. He was pleased that the fighting had simmered down and the three could at least agree on one thing. To that end, the raptor spoke, "I'll take the northern portion of the Valley. I know the Aspen Grove wolves have been fairly active, but I haven't seen the Silver Glades in a while."

Cedarwood hopped into the discussion next, now that he was given a task, "I can take the southern end."

Senka

She listened to them all ** do that velvet but take tyrant with you** she didn't want anyone except birds doing anything alone.

Tracy was glad she could help settle the dispute

Saulk & Others

Velvet offered Senka a tilt of her head to show acknowledgement. The lioness then looked to the west, where the mountains climbed higher beyond the winter bare trees. "It's not a terribly long trek, though it is an arduous one." She explained, "Just know that that land is cold in the winter, and the snow can be deep. Only those that can endure harsh weather should go." The African lion wasn' exactly built for frigid weather herself, but she could survive it with adequate shelter and the warmth of her comrades. As he began to move out of the Temple, Zanarah and Leomar followed.

Saulk watched the procession begin before he trailed after as well. With a glance back over his shoulder, he spoke, "I'll return once they've settled in. The birds should be back by then, with any luck."

Once the meeting appeared to be concluded, Dally shot off from the Temple complex, heading north to sweep the Valley. Cedarwood had hopped closer to Tracey, joining her on the platform after the others began dispersing. "Hey, that was a good save back there." He praised with a smile in his sharp eyes.